Saturday, March 25, 2006

WMD's, Al Qaeda connections, and the Russians...so far

Randy at RightWinged.com has put together a pretty comprehensive look at what we are beginning to learn about all the things our friends on the left have been telling us were either lies or damn lies. This is a massive post so pace yourself.

Comments:
the President and the administration don't concentrate on polls, instead they do what they believe is right in the face of all the media and hatred coming from the left that has now affected mainstream America's view of the war in Iraq.

Ok I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit....but I will read on.

Must keep and open mind.....Must keep and open mind.
 
DavidU,

Maybe you should bypass Randy's commentary and go to the documents.
 
RW- This thing is prety long so I'm going to comment as a read along.

How does "The Daily Show" beat out the REAL news channels? I need a drink.
 
DavidU,

Jon Stewart had General Sada on and did a good straight up interview. So far the real news shows have pretty well shunned him as far as I know. He's no Kitty Kelley you know.

I have to confess I haven't been through this whole thing yet, either.
 
For months, Negroponte has argued privately that while the documents may be of historical interest, they are not particularly valuable as intelligence product.

So, W wants them out and Negroponte does not? I thought W was President.
 
Is anybody else wondering if this is actually true, what going on in Syria with the WMDs? And why is Bush focusing on Iran developing WMDs when Syria has all of Iraq's just chilling in a U-Haul storage locker and they are just as crazy as Iran?

Ok back to reading...
 
DavidU,

I would be surprised if these weapons were "ready to launch" type things. I've never thought that which is also a reason I've always been amazed by people that can just categorically say nothing existed. Chemical and biological agents are pretty easy to hide and don't take up any huge space.

The good news is they probably don't have a tremendous shelf life either.
 
DavidU,

I haven't read this yet - it's in desktop shortcut mode, but it is specifically nuclear weapons that we are after in Iran. The WMDs that Sada says went to Syria are a different situation

This is a war on many different fronts, and Iraq is just one front in the war - just like Bush and his Neocon puppets have said all along.

getalife,

Who won in the end? Bush is given advice from many different quarters. He can take it or leave it.
 
I wish someone would come up with a translation to this phrase and stick to ii:

That America has proof that the government of Iraq and Osama Bin Laden group have shown cooperation to hit target within America.
or
That America possesses evidence that Iraq and Usama Bin Ladin's group had.cooperated to strike targets inside America
or
That the U.S. has proof the Iraqi government and "bin Laden's group" agreed to cooperate to attack targets inside America.

Damn dialects.
 
LOL...I like this Colmes guy, I'm going to have to watch him, he's funny. Plus he squashes the other guy in the clip. Does he know he works for Fox News? Someone should tell him.
 
DavidU,

Am I missing something here? Are you talking about the clip with Steven Hayes where Colmes just babbles about the 9/11 commission report?

Why is that report the be all and end all of any discussion or new found evidence anyway?
 
I'm still plowing through this, so don't count what I say here is my final word. But I have two issues with this essay.

1. Virtually all of the evidence about Iraq and WMD's that I've seen so far boils down to hearsay. There are no smoking guns. No secret arsenals, no tainted warehouses, abandoned factories or storage complexes, no "mobile WMD" trucks, and so on. No one's said they've found an Iraqi counterattack or defensive blueprint involving WMDs. But there are a lot of conflicting claims from former aides of Saddam, a guy who was notorious for lying about almost everything to almost anybody. And as seen by the collapse of Iraq to the US in mere days, Saddam's lackeys couldn't even lead your basic defense. Any plan (did it exist?) was apparently drawn up by idiot commanders who had no actual control over their disorganized and demoralized troops.

2. If I'm missing something, and this stuff does include the smoking gun, why the hell isn't the Bush administration shouting this from the rooftops? If it were true, I'd think they'd be eager to spread the word.

Please understand that there's a big part of me that really wants to see the Bush administration coming up with that slam dunk smoking gun!!! I would love to be proven wrong. I would be happy to see that the Iraq invasion was completely justified. I'm an American, and I hate to think that my country made a mistake.

So far, I'm not seeing it.
 
RW- Yeah that one, Colmes made sure viewers understood....No Connection yet.

I hope the State Dept has been up Russia's butt, figuring out what happened on the eve of the invasion. Even though most of the information given was wrong, which makes me think and hope that it was given to Saddam on purpose, like with the US' knowledge. None the less, I hope Condi is on the job on this one.

By the way RW, I think I found you a partner in the struggle
 
davidU,

Why don't you watch Hannity and Colmes more often? You will see Colmes get squished most of the time. Poor guy is stuck with indefensible positions.

I don't see what's so difficult about the 3 paragraphs you were having difficulty with. It's not the King's English, but surely you get the gist.

Sounds to me like you're pulling that old "I no speak English" trick.

finch,

The answer to no. 2 could have something to do with not wanting the Russian connection revealed even if it was purposely fake info.

As for no. 1, are documents "hearsay"?
 
DavidU,

Look what I found in the comments of her "Elephant in the bedroom" post.

Russia is supposed to be Condi's specialty so let's hope she has a handle on it.
 
Buy Danish,

I thought Colmes looked like his typical foolish self in that clip with Hayes.
 
RW,

To a seasoned observer he looked as idiotic as ever, but I can see how a gullible first-time viewer with pre-conceived notions might have found it impressive. But all he had to do was rattle off a bunch of "findings" to make his "case closed" argument.

Usually he doesn't have commission reports to regurgitate, just Dem talking points, and that can get hilarious.
 
WashSt. want to see Andy blow a gasket over at ML's blog. It's like watching a car wreck.
 
Buy Danish,

I love the arguments that Colmes always makes. Rush should do one of his montages:

The 9/11 commission reports says...but, that's not what it says in the 9/11 commission report...well the 9/11 commission report said...the findings of the 9/11 commission...blah..blah..blah

They've never trusted a word of the Warren commission and I will never in my life fully believe the findings of a commission that had a member that should have been the primary witness.
 
DavidU,

It is kind of like watching a car wreck, but WashingtonState will blow it because he's just a little too dense to stay out front.

It would be fun to watch it develop, but finch is already screwing things up by butting in with translations.
 
BD, RW- Well he did make the point that those documents still did not tie Saddam/Iraq to 9/11. Like the 9/11 report stated.

Which is the connection everyone is waiting to be made.
 
DavidU,

But he made that point to a guy that was saying the same thing about those particular documents. That's not exactly taking apart your guests argument when he agrees with you.
 
Oh, thanks.

It's all my fault.....
 
Seneca,

The discussion isn't your fault only the attempt to pile on and I spoke too soon anyway. They blew right past you. WashingtonState is trying to pull me in now, at this point I'm going to pass.
 
buy danish, again i'd like to apologize for jumping to conclusions. if you didn't mean it, i accept it.

i guess my irish came out - quick temper first, guilt later. honestly, i didn't read all of the posts- just the material.

can we still be friends?

i've always tried to avoid politics because i feel that we (no matter our affiliation), are all in this boat together.

that said, however, andy is starting to piss me off over at ml. i may be a 120 pounds soaking wet, but i can still level a mean left hook.

can someone keep me busy with other fun stuff so i don't drift over to ml and unleash a torrent of fuck stompin' shit? how about you, buy danish? where you from? have any hobbies? do you live in atlanta?

seneca, if you like the warriors, ever seen the wanderers? or the lords of flatbush? there were so many great 70s movies about street gangs.
 
Double D,

If you want I'll even open up a new room for you. The whole day has been a nightmare over at ml's place.

So did you bring some soft jazz and a lava lamp?
 
Devil Doll,

It helps to read the posts to keep things in context!

I'm trying to think of something compelling to say to get your attention so you don't wander over to the disaster at Baby Trump.

Um. I'm from NYC mostly. Hobbies - I'm a news junkie. Used to play tennis a lot, but I have recalcitrant tennis elbow, and it even hurts to type most of the time, so I guess that makes me a masochist (of sorts - that's as far as I go).

Married. Have one kid - an almost 12 year old son. Live in an exurb of Atlanta.

I better post this so you stay busy for a minute...It may be too late.
 
rw, sorry to infringe on you hospitality. no need to open a new room.

i've put on some dave brubeck and am chillin' with some 420 - the beer that is.

as for lava lamps, i never got much out of them. i guess you have to be trippy to apppreciate them.
 
dd,

I never liked them either, but you brought a velvet Elvis last time didn't you?

And you would never be infringing on my hospitality even if you really were at the door.
 
hi buy danish,
where in nyc? are you a yankees or mets fan? the bronx or queens? how about manhattan or staten island?

i'm really trying not to go back to ml. it's like a drug addiction, though.

a twelve year old son, huh? does he play any sports? into band?

what kind of exurb?
 
devil doll,

Some people like to tell others how to live their lives.

Life is way too short and I think people should do whatever makes them happy.
 
Manhattan mostly, but did live in City Island for awhile.

My son plays golf (well), tennis , and loves throwing a football, but he's not on a team. He's not in band and is not musical but likes to listen to it like most tweeners. His dad's a very good musician.

I hope I kept you occupied for a minute. Someone else needs to takeover so I can walk my dog and go to bed.
 
Hi devil doll!

"The Lords of Flatbush" is a great flick! The pre-Rocky Sly shows some real chops, and Henry Winkler pulls it off, too. Plus, there's genuine laughs.

But I never got into "The Wanderers". Maybe it was too '60s for me? I'll give it another chance.

As long as we're talking movies, ever see "Sorcerer"? It was William Freidkin's follow-up to "The Exorcist", it had nothing to do with the supernatural, and it bombed big time! But it's one of my personal faves, for the same reason "The Warriors" is. A small group of wildly diverse losers fight incredible odds toward an impossible goal.
 
Buy Danish,

I can't top living on City Island. So close to New York, and yet so far. There's no other place like it.
 
getalife, i'll tell you a story...
i always knew i was different. in highschool, i dated the jocks - i was pretty, played sports, was popular. but deep down inside, i knew i was attracted to other women.

i came out my sophomore year of college. my family was shocked and confused. in all the turmoil, i drifted to drugs and such. thankfully, it only lasted a year and half.

my family gradually came to accept me for who i was - the same old gal from before.

my parent's church, however, was a different story. they wanted my dad to confront me and change me. he was a deacon, afterall. the funny thing was, that the pastor's son had been arrested for possession and dui, and somehow, in between stealing car stereos from the walmart parking lot, had managed to get his girlfriend pregnant. nobody wanted to intervene on his behalf. but a lesbian - that was a different matter.

my parents eventually changed churches. i guess i still feel a little guilty about it. i know i should'nt, but i do.

btw, when i was in the bad stage of my life, i was mugged and beaten while visiting friends in dc. when i was taken to ncmc for care, they called my dad (we had not talked in months). he was the first person there when i woke up. he's never questioned my sexual preference since. and i've never questioned his love.
 
Seneca,

I saw a great movie with that losers fighting incredible odds plot once. It was a great flick!
 
ok, enough being mushy - i was starting to cry - that's not good.

buy danish, by all means, walk the dog. you'll have to tell me about being an accomplished musician.

seneca, you should rent the wanderers, again. the fight between the skinheads and the greasers is great. i especially like the end where ken wahl's character looks across the street and sees bob dylan playing in concert and realizes that there is whole other world outside of his awareness.

the lords of flatbush, the fonz and stallone. it's weird that stallone was once regarded as the next marlon brando. i guess de niro stole his thunder.
 
rw, i couldn't help but peek over at ml. i agree with you. we're all individuals. the simple arrangement of conservatives vs. liberals and doesn't begin to account for the complexity of our being.
 
devil doll,

Very nice. I have partied with children of pastors and they were the craziest partiers of the crowd. They liked to rebel against their parents and hated them for the constant discipline. Oh the stories I can tell.

I think that drugs are a part of life people can choose to indulge but eventually will tire and want to change. Some choose not to change and end up in jail or dead.
 
Double D,

It's hard to debate on a political blog without some broad brushing, but I don't really consider what was going on over there today to be political. I don't know what to call that, but I'm not going to play WS's game either.

I bet whoever handles the Dekalb County sex offenders web site is wondering where the hell all the traffic came from, though.
 
lol, rw. sorry for being such a pill today. if you invite me over again, how about something fun? maybe chains or brass knuckles, or why not white after labor day?

take care, bud. and thanks for keeping my mind occupied.
 
RW,

You have my taste in movies pegged so, um... er... delicately. I was really hoping for a link to "Cheech and Chong's Nice Dreams"....(grin!)

Devil Doll, I respect your taste in flicks, so "The Wanderers" will definitely get another chance. I forgot about the Dylan scene. It's been that long!
 
Goodnight dd,

Whips and chains it is...until then...
 
Seneca,

I didn't remember Sandra Bernhard being in Nice Dreams, fitting character name.
 
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